New Epping South Primary School (Concept and Stage 1)

Attn. Ms. K Harragon Director Social and Infrastructure Assessments

9 First Avenue, Epping
My Wife and I have been residents of First Avenue for over 40 years. Our children and granddaughter were educated at local primary and secondary public schools and are a credit to the public school system.
During the early 90's I was employed as the National Projects Manager for an Australian top 40 company. At that time I was responsible for bringing projects to the Board of Directors costing tens of millions of dollars to rationalize and renew the Company.
Every project should have a business case to justify it yet I see none offered. Yes Epping West public and Carlingford Public in Rickard Street have a number of demountable classrooms, but where are the plans for additional buildings on those sites where there are already sports and considerable open spaces and other amenities already available.
I see no forecast in Demographics for Epping and Carlingford, yet the latest A.B.S figures (June 1/4 2020) show that immigration has tanked.The high density apartment building projects in West Epping and Carlingford have been halted, so one must ask where in light of the continuing covid problem is growth in school age population going to occur locally? It would certainly be questionable that a new school build spend in a relatively wealthy and stable area as this could be justifiable to the detriment of Western Sydney in newly developing areas such as Gregory Hills where infrastructure like schools is lacking.

General Comments: The Horticultural Annex was occupied by Ryde Hort. School up to about a decade ago and prior to that there was a good relationship between them and the local community .The students went on street excursions and local trees and shrubs were examined as part of the course. Meanwhile the site has become a native wildlife hub with a breeding family of brush turkeys, owls. bats, butcher birds, ravens and other protected species. In essence this is not just about removing a few trees, it is about habitat destruction. There must be a bona fide wild life survey of the site by an accredited agency before a spade is turned. Damage to the green corridor that runs from the Mobb's Lane reserve along Grimes and Chelmsford must be prevented .The Grimes Lane
Nature strip will become an unofficial car park and the delicate balance of the soil structure lost.
The installation of a tannoy system at the school is something to dread. Epping West has one and caused considerable annoyance to surrounding residents. It is surprising that the E.P.A. has not legislated to curtail these 19th century methods that were used in large factory complexes. My wife has leukemia and external disturbances to the peace are not welcome.
The lack of space on the site for sports and recreation is a big negative and will mean a trek for the kids of several hundred metres to the Fred Holloway reserve and involve crossing the busy Mobbs Lane.
I concur with comments made by Mr. Weir in his submission to you.

sincerely

I support all of the submissions made with the petition that has already been submitted.
I oppose the application
a I have lived in this culdesac for 13 years It is quiet and traffic free .The proposal would make this street a car park and a rat race each morning and afternoon and when special events are held.At the moment it is a reasonably save area for children . This will change dramatically for the worse .
b In my opinion the area is too steep and not big enough for 1000 students.
c Lack of public transport and very little scope for buses in narrow streets.
d Lacks common sense to abandon a perfectly good site at the existing school.
e Most of the existing school is temporary buildings . these can be readily moved to either the oval or to the new proposed site whilst construction takes place.
f parking restrictions outside the adjacent properties will adversely affect their house values and amenities.
g the existing proposed buildings and area should be reserved for early child care and other educational activities.

REASONS FOR NOT SUPPORTING DEVELOPMENT
1. IN SUMMARY
• Excessive student numbers. Student numbers should not exceed 500 for such a small site and location.
• With the proposed student numbers even with 500 students, there will be significant traffic congestion and noise impact on quiet residential streets during the construction phase and when the school is in operation within at least 1km radius, particularly to the north & east.
• The site is sensitive to species of trees and fauna. There will be a significantly increased thoroughfare through the adjoining reserve which is high in biodiversity. The development will require a significant portion of the trees to be removed from the site.
• Due to small area of site, the building envelope has been condensed and resulted in 3 storeys building heights with estimated heights of above 13-14metres. The placement of these buildings are against single or double storey residential housing to the north (Grimes Lane) and the east (Chelmsford Avenue). The placement of the building envelope needs to be set to the back of the site close the tall residential apartments.
• There is a lack of playing fields and play areas relative to the high numbers of students.
• Site cannot support the required parking to accommodate the teaching & support staff, administration staff, visitor/parental parking, particularly considering hall events being held.
• Inadequate consultation with the local residents, noting submissions were only given 1 month to respond from the release of Concept and Stage 1.
2. NO TRAFFIC PLAN
• There is no traffic management plans with the proposal.
• Narrow street access to site, particularly in First and Second Avenue and Chelmsford Avenue will require careful consideration of traffic movement and planning around surrounding streets.
• Given the narrow streets there is an increased of vehicle and pedestrian accidents occurring as residential parking is required on both sides of the streets.
• There has been no planning of bus access to site particularly given the narrow street access via Grimes Lane, First Avenue, Second Avenue & Chelmsford Avenue.
• Significant traffic movement through First Avenue, Second Avenue and Chelmsford Avenue will require roundabouts at intersection of Dunlop Street & First & Second Avenue and Chelmsford & Edenlee Street.
• Access to site should be considered from the south west via Epping Park Drive or Ferntree Place to ease the pressure from the north of the site.
• No planning for residential parking. Residential permit parking will be required combined with limited hour parking during school hours for Chelmsford Avenue.
3. BUILDING BULK & HEIGHT
• Three storey high buildings with heights estimated above 13-14m, have been concentrated against the north-east corner of the site against single/double storey residential housing.
• Setback from Grimes Lane is only 4m whereas setback from 84B Chelmsford Avenue is only estimated at 4-5m (undisclosed on drawings).
• Such high building heights should be moved to the back of the site against the residential apartment blocks to be more consistent with height scaling across the site. The front of the site along Grimes Lanes and to the side adjoining 84B Chelmsford should be built with equivalent height to single storey residential.
• The building envelope across the site should be more evenly distributed across the full site and utilise the current tree canopy for shading in order to reduce the site’s increased radiant heat transfer from the new buildings.
4. LACK OF ON-SITE PARKING
• The development has not allowed enough parking.
• Assuming 500 students, an estimated teaching staff of between 50-60 plus admin staff (assuming no high dependency learning is offered at the school (if so, high student numbers again).
• For stage 1 only 32 parking spots have been proposed (50% of minimum required for the teaching staff & no visitor/parental parking).
• A school of only 500 students would require 100-120 parking spots (4 times the proposal).
• Due to the lack of on-site parking in the development, there would be an increased pressure on parking in surrounded narrow streets which has been allocated for residential parking.

Dear Mrs Harragon,
Please find enclosed my submission objecting to the proposed New Epping South Primary School.
Regards

20th June 2021


RE: New Epping South Primary School, Application No SSD-8873789

We object to the current proposal, especially the opening up of Grimes lane into Second Avenue and the impact this will have on the quiet residential cul-de-sac and the likely removal of 2 highly significant Blue Gum trees at the end of Second Avenue.
We have been residents of Second Avenue for over 25 years and believe this proposal has not properly considered the impact it will have on Second Avenue residents and the amenity of the street.
As the last house at the end of Second Avenue the proposal will have a major impact on access and egress from our property as our driveway will be on the proposed turning bay. As such our driveway will become a default drop off area with vehicles pulling into the start of our property to drop off their children. We also have concern regarding possible changes to the current on street parking for residents as this has not been properly addressed within the proposal.
The proposal aims to push most of the incoming traffic to the school down Grimes lane to leave via Second Avenue. This will create a very unsafe situation for all parties. At one location there will be local residents leaving their property, school staff entering the car park, pedestrians walking up from the lower section of Grimes lane, one-way traffic entering from the Grimes lane extension and two-way traffic trying to turn around at the end of Second Avenue. Given the heavy reliance there will be on private vehicle to drop off students we believe a highly dangerous situation would be created.
Previous proposals to open Second Avenue into the car park of the former TAFE facility never eventuated due to consideration being given to the needs and wishes of local residents and the impact it would have on the amenity of the area.
As pointed out in the proposal documents there are remnants of rare blue gum high forest within the development site. There are two major highly significant trees at the end of Second Avenue. These trees are very old and contain many hollows being utilized as nesting, foraging and roosting sites by many bird species as well as possums, bats and owls at night. Over the last couple of years including the current season there has been successful breeding of resident Kookaburras, Galahs and Lorikeets within these trees. These trees show many scars of their age which should be viewed as an attribute not a problem.
Given their age, location and size the current proposal would have a highly detrimental impact on the ability to retain and maintain these trees. The major road works required to extend Grimes lane, create a turning circle in Second Avenue and extend a driveway into the onsite parking area would lead to major disturbance/destruction of the root structure of these trees. To preserve these trees there should be no or minimal disturbance to their root structure out to the canopy line. This can’t be achieved under the current proposal.
Finally we believe the communication process with local residents has been very poor during the development of this proposal with no alternatives to the major changes to the streetscape and amenity of the area presented. We believe there are other viable alternatives to control traffic flow which could be adopted which would reduce the impact of the development and maintain to a large extent the current amenity of the area.

Greetings,
Please be advised, to avoid duplicating TfNSW submissions, the collective TfNSW Response has been uploaded by Roads and Maritime Services Account in the Portal. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.
Sincerely,
Robert Rutledge, Transport Planning Manager, TfNSW

Please see attached

Please see attached submission

Please see Council submission attached - 22.06.2021

I am an owner and resident of one of the apartments in Epping Park which is south and west of this planned school. While I appreciate that there is a need for a new school, I am concerned that my home will be adversely impacted.

Each of the following concerns require satisfactory mitigation plans and ongoing monitoring throughout the different time points of A) demolition, excavation and construction, B) after Phase 1, and C) future Phases 2 and 3.

A) During the demolition, excavation and construction period
• Increased traffic congestion due to heavy construction vehicles, parked cars of workers on all surrounding local streets. Most likely congestion include these roads: namely Mobbs Lane – single lane, Midson Road – single lane, Edenlee St – quite narrow, Marsden Road. As it is, Mobbs Ln, Midson Rd and Marsden Rd are congested during peak hours.
• Noise and vibration from the demolition, excavation and construction affecting the peaceful enjoyment of my home
• Ground movement from excavation that may damage surrounding existing nearby buildings and properties
• Dust/debris and harmful air pollutants from the demolition and excavation on the old site (for example potential of asbestos released into the air in the demolition of old buildings)
• Loss of habitat for many species of birds on this site from the planned clearing of trees to make way for the new school buildings

B) After Stage 1, while the school is operational:
• Increased traffic congestion due to changing surrounding and adjacent streets to Chelmsford Ave to school zone speed limits in order to accommodate for students and staff members during drop off and pick up periods by parents and school buses. The affected surrounding streets leading to Chelmsford Ave will no doubt include Midson Rd, Edenlee St, Mobbs Ln and Marsden Rd.
• Increased level of noise during school hours as our windows are not originally soundproofed for a school to be built next door. There seems to be no equivalent consideration as there was to the north to soften the appearance or screening of the school buildings from the residence to the south and west.

C) Future Stages 2 and 3:
• Construction/demolition noise associated
• My family’s privacy as the Stage 2 and 3 planned three-storey home bases will be facing south and west, overlooking into my apartment block and apartment.
• Even more traffic congestion compared to Stage 1 in order to accommodate for even more students and staff members

I would like each of the above addressed.

Thanks,
Concerned Epping Park resident and owner

I do not support the proposal for a school to be built on the site proposed site, especially one which will cater for up to 1000 students on completion of stage 2. The development of a school in this area of Epping will destroy the present quiet/tranquil feel of the neighbourhood, which is surrounded by one or two story dwellings housing young families and elderly residents, and bushland land reserve. The proposed school will have significant impact on the surrounding traffic (congestion, hazards, safety and noise), not only in adjoining streets but more broadly in the Epping, Carlingford and Eastwood areas. Adjoining and nearby streets (eg Chelmsford Ave, First and Second Streets, Edenlee st and Grimes lane) are narrow and when cars are parked either side of the road the risk of accidents (including for pedestrians) is high. This is presently the case with increased traffic and parking due to the apartments that have been established in nearby Mobbs Lane. Significant traffic congestion would also be felt within a kilometre or two radius, including on Carlingford Rd, Marsden Rd, Mobbs Ln, Terry Rd, Midson Rd and Shaftsberry Rd. This significant increase in traffic and noise will be a particular problem during construction stage where trucks and the frequency of their use will create further risks and issues for residents of the area. Local real estate agents have also advised that the value of nearby properties could also reduce by up to 20% during construction and the establishment of the proposed school.

The proposed school is too large for the area and will dwarf the nearby one or two story houses. This is particularly so given the school building is not set back closer to the apartments situated behind the site. Any buildings on the site should not exceed the height of adjoining one or two story houses. This would mean the proposal should only have a one story building. Anything higher than one story will reduce the privacy or adjoining and nearby properties. Concern that the school will also encroach on and adversely impact on substantial parts of the existing reserves and biodiversity in the area. These densely vegetated areas are frequently utilised by local residents for recreational purposes and a school built to accommodate 1000 students would reduce the amount of bushland and reserves presently available for the public. The proposed school has inadequate outdoor areas for 1000 students to engage in sporting and other activities and the allocated parking area also is inadequate for teachers, support staff and other workers as well as parents to utilise. As such there is a longer term likelihood that the school community would seek to further expand the site beyond the area already proposed, resulting in further diminishing of the surrounding bushland as well as residential areas.

Whilst I understand the need to provide greater accessibility to primary schools for the growing Epping/Carlingford/Eastwood community, I do not believe that it would be appropriate to establish such a large school in a quiet residential and bushland area where the infrastructure is inadequate to deal with increased traffic. A more appropriate approach would have been to expand the capacity of existing primary schools in area and sharing a proportion of the student numbers required to meet projected demand. Existing schools are already located in more suitable areas with road, traffic and public transport infrastructure better suited to handle an increase in student numbers. These schools already have a supporting and integrated (parent, student and teacher) community and local residents near existing schools are more likely to support increased student numbers. At the very least expanding existing school student numbers and infrastructure would take pressure off any new schools proposed for the Epping area (including on proposed new site). If greater focus went to planning, constructive consultation and co-designing with existing schools communities and nearby residents there is a greater likelihood of meeting educational objectives for the growing population in the Epping. This could be done without the need to diminish the value of the residential and bushland area of the proposed site. If a school must be built on the proposed site then not only should the numbers be significantly lower but it should be done (as already proposed) over two stages. This would provide the best opportunity for support for the proposed school from the nearby community and would reduce the adverse impact on their lives. However for reasons stated above the staged approach should limit student numbers to 200 in stage one, reaching a maximum of 400 at stage two. These student numbers would provide a significant proportion of the expected demand and the existing schools could share catering for the remainder. These numbers would enable construction of a single story school with a reduced footprint on the property, reduced traffic impact and reduced disruption to residents in the area.

Many residents chose to live in this area because of the quiet, safe and leafy surrounds. Should the proposal be successful these positive characteristics of the area, which residents were attracted to, will be forever taken away.

I DO NOT SUPPORT THE DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL.

Please refer to my attached submission for further details.

Submission regarding Development Application for the New Epping South Primary School
Application No SSD-8873789
Location. 86 Chelmsford Avenue, Epping

To Whom It May Concern,
As an owner/occupier of a property near the proposed development and having lived there for 33 years and seen changes in Epping both positive and negative I would like to object to the proposal for several reasons:
1.Midson Road is already so busy that it is difficult to cross on foot and there is often bumper to bumper traffic, heading north or south depending on the time of day. Dunlop Street is already a bus route and congested with parked cars both sides, two way traffic ad buses in a previously narrowed ( by Council) street.Adding school traffic to this small block of roads will make it almost impossible for some of us to get off our driveways or park on the street.
2.Second Avenue is currently a very quiet street which will be heavily impacted by the proposed changes,particularly for some of the senior residents. First Avenue is also a relatively quiet street as is Chelmsford Avenue.
3.For those of us with dogs on this side of the railway line these quiet streets are ideal for dog walking-without having to contend with a lot of traffic crossing roads.Also there isn’t an off lead park available nearby, so some of the land could be well used for that purpose. ( the North Epping Park defeats the purpose of trying to give a dog a pleasurable experience if they get car sick).
4.The residents of the Mobbs Lane high rise development that backs onto the proposed school site already have a reasonably busy road on one side so will be adversely affected by noise from a school of up to 1,000 students.
5.I don’t believe it is appropriate to have high rise residential dwellings overlooking a school yard, for the children’s privacy and protection.
6.There are some significant trees that are home to a family of Currawongs lining the proposed road extension site and some on the property. 7.This is a lovely green site, which would be ideal for much needed community gardens which would bring some cohesion to a suburb that has been decimated by duplexes and unit blocks, many of which are rented as are the older homes while waiting to be demolished.
8.There are several nearby primary schools, two of which are in easy walking distance of this site.
9.Epping West Primary School has many demountable classrooms and I would much rather see the money injected into a school that so badly needs redevelopment and freeing of valuable play space.The TAFE site is sloping and not ideal for play space. It also doesn’t have the surrounding amenities that Epping West School does have.
10.This area has many pre-school/daycare centres for infants but nothing available to support elderly people still living in their own homes or with family but left alone during the day.It would be nice to see a fabulous new centre with activities and care for our elderly neighbours where they could be connected and engaged, safe and valued.A community garden would also work well with this concept.
In conclusion wouldn’t it be wonderful to have a first of its kind facility for our elderly citizens, in an ageing population , that wouldn’t adversely affect this quiet section of an already busy neighbourhood, rather than ruin this special site with another school in an area of many schools.
So many of our senior citizens take their grandchildren to and from school, enabling both parents to work, and support the household and economy in many other ways yet are not valued by us giving back to and supporting them.
Please don’t ruin another quiet part of Epping!

23 June 2021

SUBMISSION: EPPING SOUTH PRIMARY SCHOOL
86 Chelmsford Avenue, Epping

Dear Sir/Madam

Please find attached my submission regarding the new Epping South Primary School (Concept and Stage 1), Application SSD-8873789.

I object to the State significant development application and request that a public hearing is held due to the serious detrimental impact of the proposed development on the immediate surrounding community. This process should enable a better design solution to come forward.

I have no reportable donations in the previous two years to make.

Yours sincerely


Mark Nutting

Dear Sir/Madam,
I wish to make a submission to the plans for Epping South Public School.
Firstly it is an absolute tragedy that a site with so many wonderful & much needed trees has been chosen for such devastation.
Of course the problem is that so much over development has been allowed that there are not many areas to choose from & councils & governments don't seem concerned with what is happening to the environment.
As we now have so many apartments in the area there are more children & there seems to be a need for a school, although I would have thought a high school more sensible.
Anyway I believe to help the situation the proposed plans could be improved & many more trees could be saved.
An underground parking area would be one way.
More trees which are considered safe for schools could be added to the plan & planted.
Consider also, as is happening in other suburbs, that with so many trees proposed for removal, with none planned to replace them, the area will become hotter & once again the environment is harmed.
Without drastic changes to the plan I object to it as it stands & hope council can come up with some better ideas
Yours sincerely

See attached.

See the attached document.

This area of Epping has had an abundance of construction over the last 10 years which has put massive pressure on the local schools - Epping West and Epping Heights. Additionally, due to the excellent academic performance of these schools, people have moved into the area especially to enable themselves to send their children to these two schools, again putting stress on these school's facilities.
In order to relieve the pressure on these schools another primary school is necessary and I encourage this development to proceed as quickly as possible.

I support the additional school. However I object to the proposed siting of the school buildings and the failure to provide substantial play space with favourable amenity for the children. In these areas the proposal seems concerned with the minimum for our children rather than excellence for our children.

Let’s build a school that in fifty years time people will say we showed wisdom and foresight in providing an educational setting that has served 8,000 children with excellence.

1. Stage 1 school buildings have been sited to the north side of the block.

This results in substantial shading to the children’s play space and the play space being unpleasantly bounded by six storey buildings to the south. This is a substantial reduction in amenity to children who use this space five days per week. Site the play area to the north of the site and move the buildings to the south and west to maximise northern sun and reduce the visual pollution of six storey buildings. Epping Park residents live among six storey buildings, the school buildings are only three storeys.

2. “There are also a number of site constraints. Given the significant slope of the western portion of the site, construction of significant infrastructure in this area is not possible. Significant limitations include construction vehicle access, buildability on steep grade, potential for flood (refer to the flood analysis report prepared by SitePlus and provided in the SSD package of documents) and equitable access to any facilities located there. The western site of the site is therefore not deemed suitable for any construction, including the staff car park and any future development stages.”

Local examples of schools built on slope are Pennant Hills High School and Barker College Hornsby.

If there a significant trees that must be lost in order provide excellent facilities for our children let's lose some of the significant trees and replant.

Place buildings on the western side of the block and move the teacher carpark to the far west with an access road in order to provide suitable play space to the east. Deal with the slope. Deal with the flood risk. Get some engineers. Pay some extra money. Nothing worth having comes easy - Theodore Roosevelt.

3. “After the construction of Stage 3, the school population will be 1,000 students with a minimum of 10,000m2 open space required.”

When did the minimum become good enough for our children? Would you recommend minimum vitamins, minimum fruit and vegetables, minimum physical activity, minimum emotional wellbeing and minimum mental health? Let’s give our precious children the space they need to thrive. Give the children the ideal play space after stage 3.

Summary:
An additional school is urgently needed in Epping resulting from the significant increase in population over the past 15 to 20 years. The NSW Government should be lauded for this project however the current proposal falls far short of what is required today to meet current educational requirements and in the future.
We know of families in Epping who cannot wait quick enough for their children to leave their current school – Epping West PS due to its toxicity of overcrowding, lack of playing space etc.
As mentioned above the current plan for ESPS will replicate the same cultural and toxic conditions as EWPS.
PLAYGROUND SPACE:
The small amount of formal outdoor space is far from being suitable for use as sports area and gathering of large number of students. It has shown that children are needing more outdoor space to explore, experience and gain opportunities particularly when the children are from high rise units (Mobbs Lane residential) and dense housing which will the catchment area for a majority of students to ESPS.

MAJOR TRANSPORT AND TRAFFIC ISSUES AND CONCERNS
WALK ACCESS:
Pedestrian access from south of the site hasn’t been marked in the plans resulting in a large impact to parents, school children and local residents.
a) Government encourages parents and children to walk for healthy exercise issues however walk from Mobbs Lane and brick pit new residential areas would require a very steep hill and at least 20 minute walk to gain access to school. Parents particularly with small children would not deem this a suitable access to the school gate therefore driving.
TRAFFIC CONCERNS:
A) Local roads including Endenlee Street, First and Second Ave would result in a major traffic jam morning and afternoon. From long time observations made at Epping West PS Ward and Lillypili Streets parents, double and triple park, park across drive ways, in drive ways and to move in or out of these streets can take up to half hour prior or after school. As we have already seen the problems in Ryde Street where CofPC has had to make huge alterations to ameliorate the huge traffic risks associated with overcrowding of schools. The risks created at ESPS will be enormous. If an emergency vehicle is required in these streets, they would be unable to access as an urgent matter. Some of these same parents will be moving to the new school and bad habits will follow.
B) School traffic would also impact on local traffic who need to have a safe access to Midson Road where traffic lights are provided on the corner with Mobbs Lane. Mobbs Lane is already a busy road used as a link between Midson Road and Marsden Road plus local residents. Visibility from Endenlee Street to proceed into Mobbs Lane is poor due to the steep hill and further traffic will cause potential incidents along with poor safety access from side streets to Midson Road increase further potential of accidents. Therefore, we request a review of the traffic flow within the local area and open up gates to south side of the school to reduce foreseen problems. Also Second Avenue will become a rat run with parents using this street to drop off / pickup.
C) Consultation is required with NSW Roads and City of Parramatta Council regarding pedestrian crossings and pedestrian safety.

OTHER CONCERNS
STAFF CAR PARK
Poor provision for staff car spaces within the grounds, meaning more car parking on local residential streets. The majority of staff will drive to the school as there is only one bus route to and from Eastwood and Epping Railway stations and walking to transport hub would be over 30 minutes.
KISS AND DROP ZONE
A large size Kiss and Drop area is required to reduce impact on local residents. This has become more evident since COVID when parents were not allowed into the school grounds and children were collected at school gates.
Kiss and Drop is a strong safety factor to any school to reduce incidents. It has been proven that traffic safety is required and lack, resulted in a death in a nearby local school without drop off area.
LARGE VEHICLES ACCESS
No allowance has been made for large vehicles including Waste disposal trucks, delivery vans and school buses for excursions. This matter needs to be addressed prior proceeding with the building of the school.