New Epping South Primary School (Concept and Stage 1)

Please keep brand new schools away from main roads so that school zones have a lesser impact on motorists

RE: New Epping South Primary School, Application No SSD-8873789
We reject the proposal to go ahead with the opening of Grimes Lane into Second Avenue and believe the response to our first submission as well as the submissions by many other residents was not given any serious consideration and the proponents of the development are only interested in trying to justify their plan for the surrounding streets with excessive consultants reports based on computer based modeling which rely of many assumptions. This is not reality.
Second Avenue is a quiet residential street which will be radically changed if the opening up of Grimes lane goes ahead. We are not opposed to the building of the school but of the unnecessary destruction to the amenity of the street for all the residents. It is a given fact that all streets adjacent to the new school will be used by parents dropping of their children irrespective of the existence of a formal drop off zone. Linking together all adjacent roads to Second Avenue via Grimes lane will create a bottle neck at the end of Second Avenue and a very dangerous environment where children will be dropped off. It would be impossible to safely merge Second Avenue and Grimes Lane traffic with arriving teachers, pedestrians and local residents. It would be far better to keep the roads separate so that each road needs to accommodate an overall smaller number of traffic movements rather that all traffic being forced to traverse all roads and exit via Second Avenue.
The small grassy verge at the end of Second Avenue is already well utilized by many members of the local community. It is an area for watching the local birds and other wildlife, a handy resting place for walkers and a catch up area for resident to have a chat while resting on the current log barriers at the end of the street. To destroy this amenity would demonstrate a total disregard for the local community. It would have a far better use in its current form as a grassy pick up area for student without the need to deal with a continuous stream of traffic. The 2 highly significant mature gum trees at the end of Second Avenue have many nesting hollows and they could not deal with disturbance around their root structure without affecting their ability to survive. The opening of Second Avenue would be a death blow for these trees.
Not opening Second Avenue will have no impact of the development of a school on the old TAFE site. A school can be built and the road systems if kept separate will be able to deal with the traffic volumes in a much safer fashion. Any development needs to consider the needs of the broader community and the local residents. This can be achieved without the need to open Second Avenue to through traffic. As such we are strongly against the proposal for the opening of Second Avenue.

It is good news.

See submission

There are 6 storey residential complexes on the southern boundary of the project. There needs to be entry points for children on the southern boundary of the project so children can enter the school close to home rather than walk a long way round or more probably be driven to the entry on Grimes Lane which would not cope with that volume of traffic. Also valuable potential playground space should not be taken up by a staff car park. There should be an underground carpark to enable as much free space as possible for children to play.

Epping South Primary access to sports grounds

The absence of large level sports grounds at the proposed school will necessitate using Fred Spurway Reserve as the nearest under-utilised grounds. Opportunities for young children to play and experience different types of football and ball games like cricket and softball that involve running, should be made available as a routine part of their physical education. This is clearly an important equity issue for the new students, particularly if their educational offering is to be attractive and comparable to Epping West Primary.

It will therefore be essential to create improved pedestrian access to these closeby playfields and related level play areas, to and from the proposed school. This now appears to be best achieved by using the existing pedestrian right of way (in line with Grimes Lane) through to the Mobbs Lane Reserve to the west and then across the reserve to Mobbs Lane itself.

Importantly, this access will also improve active transport options and outcomes for students and parents living to the south of the new school able to walk to the school itself for child drop offs and pick ups. Clearly some residents in Ryde LGA will also be served by the new primary school. This access can and should also provide a safe pedestrian route to these sports fields for groups of students. This route will effectively minimise the danger of crossing many busy roads. An additional pedestrian crossing will also probably be needed at the low point in Mobbs Lane.

This access option now needs to be thoroughly investigated and costed, with the adjoining neighbours, TfNSW and Parramatta Council consulted.

Wait times exiting Second Avenue - a new 40 km zone

The report suggests that the wait times on average for cars exiting Second Avenue will be two seconds. To a regular user who exits Second Avenue daily, this prediction appears to be highly unrealistic and does not take into account the increasing vehicular and cycle traffic flows that will soon be experienced in Dunlop Street. Presumably the streets immediately surrounding the new school will become 40 Km school zones with the requisite signage. It is highly likely that with regulated slower traffic movements, much increased pedestrian and cycling traffic usage of Dunlop Street, there will be substantial delays to exiting and entering traffic. Queuing particularly on the 'average' wet weather day can be expected. Existing residents will be seriously inconvenienced and have additional minutes added to their travel times when they have to wait to enter the stationary traffic and queue to leave their own street. This issue needs to be revisited.

Inadequate kiss and drop parking provision

The report notes that the proposed 65% provision of the 'kiss and drop parking' needs will be adequate, with the remainder of these parking needs being taken up by using adjoining local street parking. However, on 20% of the school days this local street parking will be unavailable particularly in the mornings. On the weekly garbage collection days, two or more bins will be placed out on the kerb for collection, thereby occuppying nearly all the remaining vacant street car parking spaces. This routine re-occurring problem should not be dismissed. In bad weather this situation will encourage double parking and with it attendant dangers to the alighting young passengers often in circumstances of reduced visibility. A sound and safer permanent solution needs to be found that provides 100% of the kiss and drop parking requirements.

Have gone through the exhibition and can't find any design or mentions to the Connection with Country design framework.
Looks like the project submission has missed the mark of the cultural design principles as per the following weblink from NSW Planning
https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/News/2020/Aboriginal-Community-key-to-new-cultural-design-principles

The project also does provide detail of any consultation with designing with country as per the following weblink https://www.governmentarchitect.nsw.gov.au/projects/designing-with-country

It is a real shame if this viable design development is overlooked.

I DO NOT SUPPORT ( OBJECT )
Please find my response to the submission response attached.

I OBJECT TO THE DEVELOPMENT!
PLEASE SEE ATTACHMENT

REASONS FOR NOT SUPPORTING DEVELOPMENT
IN SUMMARY
Whilst the amended proposal has addressed some of the issues relating to building height and location of buildings located on the southern boundary it has failed to address three primary concerns for residents to the northern and eastern boundaries, namely
1. Student numbers should be limited to 500-600 students
2. There is not enough on-site parking to accommodate the teaching & support staff, administration staff, visitor/parental parking, particularly considering hall events being held. The require parking needs to increase to 100-120 spots for stage 1 (500-600 students)
3. There is no traffic management plan submitted with the proposal
1. STUDENT NUMBERS LIMITED TO 500 -600
• The site is a sensitive eco-environment with limited access via part of its northern boundary. The northern boundary is surrounded by low level residential housing with narrow streets.
• The idea of allowing 1000 students on such a site is an over development of the site causing significant impact to the flora and fauna, high traffic volumes and significant noise impact on quiet residential streets to the north boundary.
• Student numbers should be limited to 500-600 to minimise the impact on the environment impact on the quiet residential streets to the north and eastern boundaries
2. LACK OF ON-SITE PARKING
• The development has not allowed enough parking.
• Assuming 500 students, the required teaching and support team is estimated at between 60-70 staff, assuming no high dependency learning is offered at the school (if so, high student numbers again).
• For stage 1 only 32 parking spots have been proposed (50% of minimum required for the teaching staff & no visitor/parental parking).
• A school of only 500 students, combined with weekend usage of the hall would require 100-120 parking spots (4 times the proposal)
• Due to the lack of on-site parking in the development, there would be an increased pressure on parking in surrounded narrow streets which has been allocated for residential parking.
3. NO TRAFFIC PLAN
• No planning for residential parking. Residential permit parking will be required combined with limited hour parking during school hours for First and Second Avenue and Chelmsford Avenue.
• Narrow street access to site, particularly in First and Second Avenue and Chelmsford Avenue will require careful consideration of traffic movement and planning around surrounding streets.
• Given the narrow streets there is an increased of vehicle and pedestrian accidents occurring as residential parking is required on both sides of the streets.
• There has been no planning of bus access to site particularly given the narrow street access via Grimes Lane, First Avenue, Second Avenue & Chelmsford Avenue.
• Significant traffic movement through First Avenue, Second Avenue and Chelmsford Avenue will require roundabouts at intersection of Dunlop Street & First & Second Avenue and Chelmsford & Edenlee Street.
• Access to site should be considered from the south west via Epping Park Drive or Ferntree Place to ease the pressure from the north of the site.

The attached document is in response to the STC Consultant response to our original submission concerning traffic issues about the new Epping South Primary School. Our objections and proposed alternative option for school parking was completely dismissed in the STC Consultant response to traffic issues. We strongly disagree with STC reasons for not adopting our alternative proposal. Our objections are reiterated in more detail in the attached document which includes a plan showing how our alternative proposal will function. We insist that this submission be given more serious consideration.

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